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<  Jeremy Lin  ~  Preseason Game #6 Thread - 10/20/2016 - NY Knicks @ BKN Nets

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:50 pm
User avatarPosts: 2329Location: Brooklyn, NYJoined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:17 pm
lack of trade rumors is from the GM. He doesn't leak anything. taken from the spurs way of doing business.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:13 pm
User avatarPosts: 15804Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:31 pm
TheSmoket wrote:
lack of trade rumors is from the GM. He doesn't leak anything. taken from the spurs way of doing business.


Point taken, but we can reverse engineer possible trade scenarios. This is why so many analysts are saying Lopez and Lin will be traded... these 2 being the Nets main assets. Nets will have a trash 1st round pick from Bos.

Nets is projected to the worst team in the NBA by almost all analytic... and the worst after averaged. Some scouts are saying 3rd worse, ONLY BECAUSE TANKING efforts by 76ers and Lakers.

Also, Nets are UNDER the salary cap because Marks openly said that they want to play a role in helping top teams get under the Luxury Tax. Possibly getting Assets by being an enabler.

This is the sad reality of the Brooklyn Nets season.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:59 pm
Posts: 4802Location: NJ/NY Metro AreaJoined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:07 pm
Malorkayel wrote:
Phil, the only reason I'm even spending my time responding is because I do have a high opinion of you. You seem like a smart nice person.

However, the discussion here is for trying to glimpse and take an educated guess at the final result. Meaning, I'm trying to best guess rationalize how many games will the Nets win and balance my head cannon with what the "professional analysts" are saying.

"It's only preseason" is not an attempt at being analytical.

In my observation, Coach Kenny is behind the curve as to his team talent, his own experience as head coach, and his team preparation in terms of strategy and organization.

This a RED FLAG when Kenny said this team has been practicing as a group for 4 months. Also, Nets GM is showing all signs to TANKING. The team is $18 mil UNDER the salary cap. However, there are ZERO rumors of the Nets actively calling to upgrade the roster in TRADES.

I was trying to grasp for reasons how Nets will win more than 20 games this season... but other than "Lin 4 teh WIN", I can't really find any, even after searching hard.

So, when other people say that Kenny and Lin are a 2 year stop gap for fan entertainment reasons. I'm starting to see validity too.


My point is this...in preseason, we can observe a lot of things and be analytical about them. We can observe the talent on the team (or lack thereof). We can see how chemistry develops. We can see improvement individually and as a team (or not). I agree with you that we can (and as fans, should) analyze these things. What I am disagreeing strongly with you is what you can analyze and conclude from coaching decisions around rotations, substitutions and game-time management in the context of winning a game...I do not believe that what you see from coaches in these areas in preseason has ANY relationship to what they would do in a regular season game.

Not sure how the team could have been practicing together as a group for 4 months when free agency didn't even start until the first week of July (less than 4 months ago). And we know this is not a win-now season...we knew that the moment that Tyler Johnson and Allen Crabbe re-signed with their old clubs and the Nets had to scramble to fill the roster.

I do believe that Atkinson has a 2-year window to show he can get the team moving in the right direction. I said this the moment we learned that Lin's 3 year contract has a player-option after the 2nd year...that he signed with the Nets to play for Atkinson, and if Atkinson gets the boot, he will want the option to leave...that it was a 2 year option convinced me that the Nets gave Lin an indication that Atkinson would have that 2 year window. So I do not believe Atkinson will try to tank this year in order to get a better draft position...he will want the team to make trades this season and sign FAs next season to improve the team...and in the meanwhile, he will install a system and a culture that will at least give some semblance of attractiveness to FAs next summer. If they are a 20 win team this season, they will not get any good FAs next season.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:33 pm
User avatarPosts: 15804Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:31 pm
Phil, I'm tired of hand holding you through Nets basics 101.

You have this naive belief that the "Basketball Systems fairy" will come in and power up the Nets.

Systems and Schemes doesn't spring up from no where. Last night I saw this one set play Lin runs to the 3pt line with a zipper cut, he gets the ball and was expecting a floppy action but his teammates were all slow and confused, the defenders and the audience knew what was coming next, it obviously resulted in turnover.

This is relevant in Coach Kenny being behind the curve to what the team SHOULD be at this point in the season. Kenny said many times that Nets can score... don't worry about offense. However, Kenny is purely riding on the talent of Lin... he hasn't even drilled in the pick and roll with Lin/Lopez. The team is NOT PREPARED. This reflects to Kenny spending his time in his many hours of teaching that has zero payout on the basketball court. Nets defense is a joke, Rebounding is a joke, the bench is offense is a joke

When I play a game or sport... I can estimate the progress/effective level of a player by watching his form and how/what he is practicing. You yourself are a believer of the "eye test". So, why is the "eye test" no longer valid to estimate of a coach when it's during the preseason game teaching?

Also, a lot of what I'm saying is backed up through team media interviews. If you watched all of them like I have you wouldn't even need me to explain all of this...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:51 pm
Posts: 4802Location: NJ/NY Metro AreaJoined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:07 pm
Malorkayel wrote:
Phil, I'm tired of hand holding you through Nets basics 101.

You have this naive belief that the "Basketball Systems fairy" will come in and power up the Nets.

Systems and Schemes doesn't spring up from no where. Last night I saw this one set play Lin runs to the 3pt line with a zipper cut, he gets the ball and was expecting a floppy action but his teammates were all slow and confused, the defenders and the audience knew what was coming next, it obviously resulted in turnover.

This is relevant in Coach Kenny being behind the curve to what the team SHOULD be at this point in the season. Kenny said many times that Nets can score... don't worry about offense. However, Kenny is purely riding on the talent of Lin... he hasn't even drilled in the pick and roll with Lin/Lopez. The team is NOT PREPARED. This reflects to Kenny spending his time in his many hours of teaching that has zero payout on the basketball court. Nets defense is a joke, Rebounding is a joke, the bench is offense is a joke

When I play a game or sport... I can estimate the progress/effective level of a player by watching his form and how/what he is practicing. You yourself are a believer of the "eye test". So, why is the "eye test" no longer valid to estimate of a coach when it's during the preseason game teaching?

Also, a lot of what I'm saying is backed up through team media interviews. If you watched all of them like I have you wouldn't even need me to explain all of this...


What does any of that have to do with rotation decisions in a preseason game?

I agree that the Nets aren't looking very good in these games (although from the eye test, they are looking WAY better now than they did in the first preseason game...and the first preseason game is the only win they have, so what does that mean?). How much of that is on the coach, and how much of that is on the lack of talent? Not sure...but given how far they still have to go, I am pretty sure that the last thing on Atkinson's mind during the preseason game is whether or not he's making rotation adjustments to try to win the game. He's more concerned with getting guys like Vasquez and Bennett to run the offense over and over until they get it right.

They eye test is great for when the person observing is looking for the same things as the guys on the court and on the sideline. The eye test says that the Nets 2nd unit sucks and that there is still a lot of work to do. But the eye test on rotations and game management decisions only works if you are looking for the same things the coach is looking for...you are looking for good game management decisions to help the team win a preseason game, while I believe that Atkinson is looking to evaluate players and develop the teamwork and chemistry of the team. The Nets have already said that they are looking more for "progress" than "wins"...and preseason is when that is doubly important.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:45 pm
User avatarPosts: 15804Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:31 pm
Nets progress should quantifiably turn to wins.

Rotations and repeating set actions with Vasquez and Bennett which both are not rookies, is NOT as efficient as simply playing them less minutes during games. They should have worked on fundamentals in PRACTICE.

Vasquez and Bennett, in my opinion are not good NBA professionals. Kenny wasting too much time on them is him spinning his wheels. Kenny has assistants, learn to delegate.

Kenny having to "look at things" in a preseason which should be fundamental knowledge to an experienced head coach is exactly why I said he is behind the curve.

I didn't like how Kenny had to "look at things" in the 3rd-4th quarters and put the team in a hole and then play Lin and Lopez to try and catch up the score, because it resulted to Lin getting injured... though not seriously.

Kenny will get fired next season, if he continues this path of development. Which goes back to me asking Was Kenny a lame duck coach like Byron Scott all along?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:13 am
User avatarPosts: 4893Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:39 am
The Nets didn't look good in preseason... but Lin looks like an all-1st team player. Thats all we should care about. The Nets are a + rating whenever Lin is in the game. if Lin plays all 48 minutes of every game, the Net will win more than 20 games.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:43 am
Posts: 4802Location: NJ/NY Metro AreaJoined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:07 pm
Malorkayel wrote:
Nets progress should quantifiably turn to wins.

Rotations and repeating set actions with Vasquez and Bennett which both are not rookies, is NOT as efficient as simply playing them less minutes during games. They should have worked on fundamentals in PRACTICE.

Vasquez and Bennett, in my opinion are not good NBA professionals. Kenny wasting too much time on them is him spinning his wheels. Kenny has assistants, learn to delegate.

Kenny having to "look at things" in a preseason which should be fundamental knowledge to an experienced head coach is exactly why I said he is behind the curve.

I didn't like how Kenny had to "look at things" in the 3rd-4th quarters and put the team in a hole and then play Lin and Lopez to try and catch up the score, because it resulted to Lin getting injured... though not seriously.

Kenny will get fired next season, if he continues this path of development. Which goes back to me asking Was Kenny a lame duck coach like Byron Scott all along?


Who cares if they are rookies or not? If the coach is trying to get them to do things and isn't seeing what he wants, he can keep them on the court to see if they can work into it. This applies to veterans and rookies alike. You would hope that veterans could pick things up quicker, but as you say, Vasquez and Bennett aren't good NBA professionals...but they will be on the roster this year, so shouldn't the coach try to get the most out of them while he has this opportunity in games that don't matter? While they will likely not see much playing time during the regular season, injuries or other issues may put Atkinson in a position where he'd have to play them.

Byron Scott was given a 2-year window with the Lakers. If the team had shown progress, they would likely have kept them...but they got progressively worse and the culture became toxic.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:45 am
Posts: 4802Location: NJ/NY Metro AreaJoined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:07 pm
yaominginfohere wrote:
The Nets didn't look good in preseason... but Lin looks like an all-1st team player. Thats all we should care about. The Nets are a + rating whenever Lin is in the game. if Lin plays all 48 minutes of every game, the Net will win more than 20 games.


Hard to judge that, because teams don't game-plan for the opposing team in preseason. Definitely expect regular season games to see teams trapping Lin a lot more than they did in preseason, forcing him to pass and make other players make plays. Brook needs to really step up and be a force, and so does one other player to take the pressure off Lin.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:43 pm
User avatarPosts: 2329Location: Brooklyn, NYJoined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:17 pm

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