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<  Jeremy Lin  ~  Harden"sticky" balls, Assistant coach Chris Finch

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:05 pm
User avatarPosts: 15804Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:31 pm
http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/offensive

So, here the Asst. Coach SF blames Harden for all the late game ISO.

[quote]HOUSTON - Note to the reader: Today


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:42 pm
Posts: 10073Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:10 pm
no one but rock arguing with pryuen thinks isobeard is a good option at the end of games

but read and react in Houston last year or "free-flowing offense" in your article means McHale not doing ****** as coach and telling Lin and Harden to figure it out

as it says plainly in that article, and I explained before butthurt happened in the other thread, a guy moving without the ball can create more tactical advantage than anyone with the ball. the primary benefit of having SG dominate the ball is

1) if you have a natural mismatch to exploit

2) trying to draw foul contact late in games

Harden is a natural scorer who can create his own offense but he's not a natural mismatch the way that Camel or Lebron and the best iso players are, neither is he a dominant post player or someone who had experience scoring in iso at the end of games like he was expected to last year, if the defense knows Harden is going to go iso and doesnt' trust his teammates he's easily stopped.

it's not a matter of Jeremy Lin versus Harden, the entire thing simply isn't an effective scoring mechanism. it hurts Harden most of all asking him to do something he isn't good at, versus a stacked deck. obviously it's eminently unfair to the other players.

regardless of what they say they should have helped Harden more, and should have tailored more plays to break specific defenses he would see versus specific teams at the end of games. you dont need an "encyclopedia" you just need to do your job and coach. the entire thing is McHale saying "it's not a MOTION OFFENSE" it's a "READ AND REACT OFFENSE" and make it seems like the movement off the ball handler was something that McHale had optimized for each player. it's nonsense


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:14 pm
User avatarPosts: 12457Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:27 pm
temuchin wrote:
no one but rock arguing with pryuen thinks isobeard is a good option at the end of games
phil Jackson has shown that it is a great option.

ignorance is not knowing who phil Jackson is, while pretending to know bb :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:21 pm
User avatarPosts: 15804Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:31 pm
too bad you have McDuck on the Rockets, not retired coach Jackson.

Also, Shaq got the ball plenty of times when he played under Phil.

Also, Moranus being Moranus and not read the interview.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:49 am
Posts: 10073Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:10 pm
no he's right. in the Moranus universe that he's posting from Phil Jackson has shown iso Harden is a great option. In his Moranus-verse Phil Jackson is the coach of the Rockets. In fact Phil Jackson is the COACH OF EVERY TEAM

that explains Moranus' literal anal fixation with posting "Phil Jackson" anytime anyone posts anything about coaching.

also

1) Moranus in fact has perfect grasp of TRIANGLE OFFENSE which Jackson ran and the read and react that McHale supposedly runs. it's not that he's posting nonsense out of ignorance about 2 completely different systems.

2) Moranus totally understood the point in the article about read and react. he comprehended the point that the McHale coaching staff is trying to offload blame by claiming that although they had no plays, the fact that the other 4 players have been given the correct reacts to the decisions made by the ballhander (who happens to be Harden, who happens to choose option "do it myself, dont trust none of these fools on the team" every time) shows it was the players who were making bad decision and bad reads. not McHale

3) Moranus totally comprehends the point of iso... the most important point being the mismatch on the defender, without which there is no point of iso. iso is entirely based on specific player versus specific defender, but Moranus was applying the same concept to disparate players (which is exactly 180 degrees opposite of understanding it) not out of ignorance by to make an ironic point


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:14 pm
User avatarPosts: 7215Location: Austin, TX Home of the RoseBowl Champions and NCAA basketball champions.Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:24 am
temuchin wrote:
no one but rock arguing with pryuen thinks isobeard is a good option at the end of games



The saddest thing here is turd chin is willing to say the dumbest things to defend what he says in other threads. End of game situations almost always come down to an iso.

The only part of the triangle the Bulls ran late in games was to get Michael the ball. The only part the Lakers ran late in games was to get Kobe or Shaq the ball. After that the expectation is that they would create something. Isolate Shaq in the post or Jordan/Kobe on the wing/post. Anyone with some knowledge of basketball knows that's what you want.

A simple read an react offense. You have your best player come off a pindown, if the defender follows you keep going, if he goes inside the pick you counter through the lane and come up on the other side. Often times there's another pick waiting for you. When time is an issue though, that becomes a tad more difficult to do. The second saddest thing here is turd chin is going to google all the basketball terms I just used and try to tell me I'm wrong. :lol: :oops:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:28 pm
User avatarPosts: 15804Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:31 pm
rock, just stahp. you're pulling sht out from the 90s when ISO mattered. Every team plays a soft zone on defense now, you can pack the paint.

Do you even ISO?

Also, the good teams run ISO to initiate their offense. HOU were just give the ball to Harden out of desperation and trying to inflate Harden's stats.

Go look up advanced stats or read some Morey interviews. Hardens will be getting less ISO or they'll actually run a play, but Lin is just better at the playmaker than Harden.

Harden is a better chucker, when you're a bad team you need a guy like Monte that can throw up sht, better than turning the ball over. Rubio is making a name for himself doing just this. Fake playmakers.

But don't want to sound like Harden hater, because he's a good SG. He's just not all that yet. Last year, he was the best player on a bad team. It was retarded that McDuck had to overlap Harden into Lin because that team didn't have much to work with.

Excuse would be Morey's fault, for that last second trade, and no game plan. Still, you don't get wreck your nose to spite your face. McDuck should have fixed these problems by the trade deadline and all-star game over with.

Also, if you call shaq post up ISO, then you can basically every action ISO. A 3pt shot will be 3pt ISO. Or a screen roll ISO. How about pocket pass ISO dunk? Just saying that the Harden flat 4 ISO from near half court is a shtty play and Harden wasn't really efficient at it. You can look up Advanced stats and prove me wrong. Every interview this week from McDuck and Harden said that all that ISO last season was because Harden was tired. They wanted Harden to have the ball early and he can take 12 seconds to get his wind.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:56 pm
User avatarPosts: 7215Location: Austin, TX Home of the RoseBowl Champions and NCAA basketball champions.Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:24 am
Malorkayel wrote:
rock, just stahp. you're pulling sht out from the 90s when ISO mattered. Every team plays a soft zone on defense now, you can pack the paint.

Do you even ISO?

Also, the good teams run ISO to initiate their offense. HOU were just give the ball to Harden out of desperation and trying to inflate Harden's stats.

Go look up advanced stats or read some Morey interviews. Hardens will be getting less ISO or they'll actually run a play, but Lin is just better at the playmaker than Harden.

Harden is a better chucker, when you're a bad team you need a guy like Monte that can throw up sht, better than turning the ball over. Rubio is making a name for himself doing just this. Fake playmakers.

But don't want to sound like Harden hater, because he's a good SG. He's just not all that yet. Last year, he was the best player on a bad team. It was retarded that McDuck had to overlap Harden into Lin because that team didn't have much to work with.

Excuse would be Morey's fault, for that last second trade, and no game plan. Still, you don't get wreck your nose to spite your face. McDuck should have fixed these problems by the trade deadline and all-star game over with.

Also, if you call shaq post up ISO, then you can basically every action ISO. A 3pt shot will be 3pt ISO. Or a screen roll ISO. How about pocket pass ISO dunk? Just saying that the Harden flat 4 ISO from near half court is a shtty play and Harden wasn't really efficient at it. You can look up Advanced stats and prove me wrong. Every interview this week from McDuck and Harden said that all that ISO last season was because Harden was tired. They wanted Harden to have the ball early and he can take 12 seconds to get his wind.


Yes, an offense based around Harden's perimeter iso's is not going to be a good one, but McHale sucks. Jeremy's game tended to break down into the exact same thing as Harden's. He got the ball and attacked.

And yes, a Shaq post was an iso. The whole purpose of the triangle's initial set was to give two post players an entry angle. The whole purpose of the triangle offense's initial set is to ensure a good post entry angle. After that you let the post man go to work. If that's not an isolation what is it? An example of a player scoring off something other than an iso would be Reggie Miller's game winner in game 6 of the 1998 ECF.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:24 am
User avatarPosts: 15804Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:31 pm
I'm saying Shaq posting up in the triangle offense is much more effective than the flat 4 ISO at half court that Harden was running.

Also, there is almost no action when Harden ISO. He pounds the ball slowly walking up to the 3pt line and then he turns it over half the time.

You can say Jeremy does the same stupid ISO, which is true and it sucked the same. Jeremy did it much less than Harden.

Let me break it down a little more. Harden only has 2 options on an ISO. Ultimately he would hope he gets double teamed, that would have made the ISO effective by drawing a double team and kick out for assist. However he rarely gets doubled, so he is on 1 on 1 with him either driving or shooting a step back 3.

Late in the game the refs don't call fouls and harden will almost always go for the step back 3, which is a bad shot.

It's always easier to score within the flow of the offense. Fake ISO is bad. That flat 4 BS ISO is Harden hero balling and sucking 14 seconds off the clock. He could have let Jeremy run a play.... oh forgot we had McDuck as coach. lol, nm.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:17 am
Posts: 10073Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:10 pm
tharock220 wrote:
temuchin wrote:
no one but rock arguing with pryuen thinks isobeard is a good option at the end of games



The saddest thing here is turd chin is willing to say the dumbest things to defend what he says in other threads. End of game situations almost always come down to an iso.

The only part of the triangle the Bulls ran late in games was to get Michael the ball. The only part the Lakers ran late in games was to get Kobe or Shaq the ball. After that the expectation is that they would create something. Isolate Shaq in the post or Jordan/Kobe on the wing/post. Anyone with some knowledge of basketball knows that's what you want.

A simple read an react offense. You have your best player come off a pindown, if the defender follows you keep going, if he goes inside the pick you counter through the lane and come up on the other side. Often times there's another pick waiting for you. When time is an issue though, that becomes a tad more difficult to do. The second saddest thing here is turd chin is going to google all the basketball terms I just used and try to tell me I'm wrong. :lol: :oops:


lol moranus has discovered profound butthurt and found all these funny things but didn't find the funniest one of all:

that you don't even understand the 2 most basic points of running iso

1) CREATE A MISMATCH

2) create space for your ball handler.

seriously, what is your difficulty in comprehending Beard in iso 1v5 at the end of games doesn't create a natural mismatch nor give Harden the necessary separation? iso is predicated on having the natural advantage to beat your man and then have the space to score before the team can stop you. what part of McHale's isobeard extravaganza not setting Harden up with the tools for success is hard to comprehend?

even McHale's staff even HARDEN HIMSELF have felt so invalidated by isobeard that they have taken the extraordinary step of DISAVOWING IT. but tharock knows better. he no dat in Jordan they did and here is lists. tharock is win on this!

doing your thing and writing some irrelevant train derailment from 90s isn't going to change the incessant stupid squawking you've done about how great it is that isobeard dominates the ball. quit being a ****** moranus. that's real advice. every time you post you take more and more plays out of the his canto playbook because you can't be a decent poster, can't take 5 minutes to think about what you're going to post, or have the balls to back up what you've posted

dumping the ball into Howard or Shaq isn't iso you ****** imbecile because there isn't enough separation. that's just called dumping the ball into the paint and the way you know this isn't a standard iso play is because you rarely see that ****** in the NBA at the end of games and quarters even with a star center. if you do see it dumped into the paint it is for the purpose of drawing contact, essentially an attempt at a poor man's 3 pointer, not to execute iso

the problem with Houston's read option is that Harden himself didn't trust the reads the other players were making. also because of a lack of legit scoring threat, or other players who could create their own offense, defenses knew that Harden would isobeard and other coaches had done their jobs unlike McHale by packing in the defense forcing Harden into a contested jumper to lose games

getting more and more butthurt isn't helping your point. what you need to do is figure out something you can post which isn't asinine. right here in this thread look at what you've posted. first some ****** about triangle offense that doesn't have ****** to do with Houston, then 2 posts trying to back up dumb ****** you've posted about dumping into the paint as iso

put it this way. if Houston goes "iso" in the paint with Howard they are ******. this is the one way they could actually do a worse job as a coaching staff than they did last year and ****** up what should be a top 4 team in the West. this is exactly what I've been saying from the beginning. nice to see that you're being a Houston inbred as is typical and actually thinking about the dumbest possible option


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