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<  Jeremy Lin  ~  Houston Rockets Big 4 on 2013~14 Media Day

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:18 am
User avatarPosts: 12439Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:27 pm
fo-fo-fo was a ferocious offensive rebounder, many of his points come off rebounds. he had neither the footwork nor inside moves of McHale


ms turd chin, stop publicizing ur ignorance


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:28 am
User avatarPosts: 12439Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:27 pm
Malorkayel wrote:
Harden is a ballhog. That's his style that McHale spoiled Harden into when he put the team in Harden's hands last season.
come on, Mal.

Harden's style of play hasn't changed since his days in Artesia High; he was also an iso baller at Arizona and OKC.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:39 am
User avatarPosts: 15663Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:31 pm
Dr. No wrote:
Malorkayel wrote:
Harden is a ballhog. That's his style that McHale spoiled Harden into when he put the team in Harden's hands last season.
come on, Mal.

Harden's style of play hasn't changed since his days in Artesia High; he was also an iso baller at Arizona and OKC.


To be honest, I understand Harden's role last year within the limitations of the team and coaching staff.

My point is that THIS YEAR with the addition of Howard, Harden's role is going to change.

OKC didn't have a player like Howard. They're mainly a jump shooting team similar to HOU last year.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:03 am
User avatarPosts: 12439Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:27 pm
Malorkayel wrote:
My point is that THIS YEAR with the addition of Howard, Harden's role is going to change.
DH is joining a new team, isn't he gonna adjust to blend in ?

Harden is gonna adjust on defense, where w DH in the post, he can take more gamble.

dh is gonna adj on offense, to develop a dependable inside game and PnR


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:15 am
Posts: 10073Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:10 pm
Harden didn't play at Arizona you Moranus, he played at ASU. you don't even know what school he went to

and as for your belief that Harden's style of play hasn't changed since high school, lol that makes a strong case for you continuing to claim OSMOSIS and McHale's clinics as valid coaching approaches, it would be the less noob alternative

quit being a Moranus


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:21 am
Posts: 10073Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:10 pm
Malorkayel wrote:
Dr. No wrote:
Malorkayel wrote:
Harden is a ballhog. That's his style that McHale spoiled Harden into when he put the team in Harden's hands last season.
come on, Mal.

Harden's style of play hasn't changed since his days in Artesia High; he was also an iso baller at Arizona and OKC.


To be honest, I understand Harden's role last year within the limitations of the team and coaching staff.

My point is that THIS YEAR with the addition of Howard, Harden's role is going to change.

OKC didn't have a player like Howard. They're mainly a jump shooting team similar to HOU last year.


McHale just didn't know what the ****** to do last year so he was like "James go iso. Lin get the ball to James"

this year even a retard understands: see that big black guy in the middle? throw the ball to him coz he can dunk

as I posted Harden likely would have been better this year in terms of ball stopping. the guy played 2 years of NCAA and never started in the NBA. all things considered Harden was the last thing Houston had to worry about


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:26 am
User avatarPosts: 15663Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:31 pm
Also, the recent videos with the team at training camp already show that Harden is changing his game. Harden said he's going to be focusing on defense and he will take less ISO.

Howard isn't changing, I don't know if he CAN change.


http://www.nba.com/rockets/video/2013/0 ... 4-2604188/

http://www.nba.com/rockets/video/2013/0 ... V-2604703/


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:54 am
User avatarPosts: 12439Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:27 pm
temuchin wrote:
Harden didn't play at Arizona ..... he played for ASU ...
ms turd chin reduced to being a nitpicker :roll:

Malorkayel wrote:
Howard isn't changing, I don't know if he CAN change.
him training w Lin in Co is a good sign that he may be willing to give it a try, ie the PnR...

that's one play that he had refused to run w the Lakers' Steve Nash

PnR and then some inside moves, such as the up-n-under move


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:39 am
Posts: 10073Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:10 pm
Arizona is not the same school as Arizona State. yes they have 1 same word... kind of like FLAMMABLE and NONFLAMMABLE but they are not in fact the same thing. when people say "Arizona" they are talking about a specific school the University of Arizona (also A of U). Arizona State, or ASU, is totally different school, and is actually the much bigger school. this is like you confusing KU and UK and then claiming they are interchangeable.

that doesn't even address your stupid belief that Harden hasn't adjusted his playstyle from high school through ASU to OKC. just lol

and you realize that Howard ran a ton of pick and rolls for half a decade in Orlando right? wtf nonsense are you talking about

it's not literally Howard running or not running PnR you Moranus, it's whether Howard will accept a motion offense oriented to using speed and spacing at every opportunity to score as opposed to demanding 15 post ups in the lane and going inside out.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:12 pm
User avatarPosts: 7215Location: Austin, TX Home of the RoseBowl Champions and NCAA basketball champions.Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:24 am
Malorkayel wrote:

To be honest, I understand Harden's role last year within the limitations of the team and coaching staff.

My point is that THIS YEAR with the addition of Howard, Harden's role is going to change.

OKC didn't have a player like Howard. They're mainly a jump shooting team similar to HOU last year.


I'm sure the Harden will have no problem throwing the ball into the post. Kobe threw it to Shaq. McGrady threw it to Yao. Ginobili threw it to Duncan.

temuchin wrote:
tharock220 wrote:
pryuen wrote:
tharock220 wrote:

That's like asking why didn't the Lakers let Gary Payton be a point guard in 2004 instead of giving Kobe the ball the majority of the time. Kobe was better than Payton, and Hardin is better than Lin. That's not a criticism of Jeremy. It's just the truth.


Well, all I know is Kobe pissed off Howard last season because of his ISO; so if Harden doesn't change, he'll piss of Howard too. It's a NO BRAINER that ISO plays destroy chemistry.

If you want Howard to play great you have to give him the ball, he's not going to stand by on the side and watch Harden trying to go through 5 players.

WITHOUT Jeremy last year, personally don't think the Rockets would have made the playoff. There were so many nights that Rockets lost because of hero ball from James Harden. Both Chandler Parsons and Jeremy were playing Mr. Nice Guy watching James Harden playing hero ball/ISOs and focusing on points per night insteads of teamwork or FG%.

Did you recall how many of these sub 40% FG% nights James Harden had in last season??? And how he would constantly ignore the double or triple team he was up against, and would rather try to go through them with sheer force insteads of trying to pass to his open team mates???

I guess there are fans that like to see Kobe-like ISO ball.....but I don't.

Ws are ALWAYS MORE IMPORTANT than individual heroics or getting your shots on ESPN's highlight reels.


I fail to see why you insist on bringing up Harden's shooting when Lin's was similar on about 2/3rd's as many shots.

And you might be right. Without Jeremy the Rockets don't make the playoffs. Without Harden, however, the Rockets aren't even a .500 team.

Other NBA players who iso

LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Russell Westbrook
Dwyane Wade
Kobe Bryant
Derek Rose
Kyrie Irving
Carmelo Anthony

In the NBA, the vast majority of the time, the purpose of the offense is to create mismatches. A good player in a one on one situation is usually a mismatch.

Your asserted that Jeremy should have the ball because he's a better point guard, but Kobe Bryant handled the ball rather than Payton, Fisher, or Blake, McGrady handled the ball rather than Sura or Alston, Dwyane Wade handled the ball rather than Jason Williams or Gary Payton, Allen Iversno handled the ball rather than Eric Snow, Jordan handled the ball rather than John Paxson, BJ Armstrong, or Ron Harper, and the list just goes on.

The line between the one and the two has become increasingly blurred. When you have a arguably the best off guard in the league, the only way he's not going to handle the rock the majority of the time is if he shares the backcourt with the likes of Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Rondo etc.


you guys are having a queer conversation but a couple of points:

neither of these guys are a pure points. they're both basically combo guards. they both score and handle the ball. Lin can play point because he has good court vision, good passing and high BB IQ but if you wanted to maximize his contributions he is an explosive scorer and thus would never play a traditional point. that's if you wanted to maximize his contribution, like Harvard or the Knicks. if you're McHale and 10000 hicks from Houston then you're not interested in maximizing his contributions, you want him to play point.

the problem with Lin is that his instincts are to score and to create, to help the team when they need points. playing a PG is in many ways counter to his natural instincts, which creates problems when he tries to play McHale's role

you guys are also muddling some basic basketball

first of all the deal with handling the ball is that no matter how good you are with the ball, there's no player who is as agile and quick with the ball as without the ball. the reason why a SG doesn't bring the ball up the court and have the ball in his hands is because by NOT having the ball in his hands he can put himself in a better position to create mismatches and separation and otherwise score when the PG passes him the ball. it's not because having the ball in SG's hands at all times is an advantage to him but because it's a DISADVANTAGE to his job scoring.

the thing that delineates a PG and SG is not the fact that the PG has the ball in his hands more but that the SG IS A BETTER SCORER than the PG. in essence the roles are mechanically created to actually give flexibility to the SG to operate with EITHER the ball in his hands or not in his hands whereas for a PG the default is for the ball to be in his hands... not to give him more opportunities to score but so that the SG, SF and other dedicated scorers can use the fact the ball is not in their hands to get into better tactical positions to score. with a short time clock, every second in an offensive possession must be spent advancing your team's chance to score. one second spent without you getting your team an incremental advantage to score is a second wasted. you can think of the time that the SG spends to run around the screen or create a switch or get open like a fast forward button on the offense compared to him with the ball in his hands.

it's basic tactic in sports, and universal base strategic concept. it's like kids playing LOL. bottom lane you have support feed ADC, the idea being that the SG maximizing his scoring opportunities even at the cost of a PG is actually better than the PG and SG both scoring, and both being responsible for handling the ball in what are non-advantage basketball situations.

the reason why this has changed a bit in the NBA is basically because of Stern's corruption. first of all "star calls" wholly imbalance the cost benefit of having a PG feed you the ball. more time of possession in a star's hands, especially in crunch time increases dramatically the chance that the standard contact that happens on every NBA play will be called a foul. second basketball players are stupid, they can't really see things in steps ahead but just right what's in front of him, so to someone like Kobe, the .5 seconds it takes for his PG to pass him the ball is a waste. he's going to just take the ball and shoot so it doesn't matter who passes him the ball. it's faster to just have it in his hands already and then jack up a shot or go to the basket to get a foul. third of course is that Stern has purposefully made it easier for SGs starting with Jordan, in effect by diluting the ability of defenders to check the ball handler, he's lowered the difference between a guy moving with the ball and without the ball compared to legit basketball, therefore reducing the cost and increasing the benefit of a SG starting with the ball in his hands, rather than moving to get into a position to score.

now rock is going to come in here and ***** some nonsense about being misconstrued but the above is just so you are both up to speed on what basketball is. the problem with your post is your taking all of this and netting out in your head that if Kobe does something and Lebron does something then Harden should have the ball in his hands "most of the time." that's retarded. it's exactly the same as with the other issue you are arguing about: isos. you list a bunch of dudes and then say "hey melo isos to not win rings.... obv harden should iso."

it doesn't matter what other teams do, what matters is the substance of why they do what they do. Westbrook, Durant, Lebron, Melo, Lebron all create natural mismatches, which the team exploits for scoring opportunities. The only mismatch Harden versus 2 at the end of the game creates is against Houston. isobeard is homosexual. the only thing more flaming is the idea that Harden should do it because a list of dudes do it and the idea that Harden should do it because McHale religiously believes in that ******. unless his game is predisposed to exploiting mismatches, and he has the ability to CREATE natural mismatches that are more efficacious than using all 5 players to create opportunities it's some dumb ******

where pryuen is wrong is insisting that isobeard clogging the offense specifically hurts Lin. really who gets hurt when Harden isos is the entire team, not Lin. to your point, Harden handling the ball does impact Lin since both are types of players who need the ball in their hands to produce but Harden's job is to score. rather than blame him for operating like he's still coming off the bench with a responsibility to individually impact the offense (which includes having the ball in his hands at the cost of others) all that blame goes to McHale who gave him the green light to be greedy. I actually think that even without getting Howard, Harden's ball handling would have gone down. always having the ball in his hands is a clear trait of playing as a 6th man, matched against reserves, with the main responsibility to create offense. as a starter that is a detriment to your team because your outlook and responsibility is far more strategic than tactical, for example making sure other players get into their groove, have possession throughout the game, and also pacing out your game, rather than having limited minutes to go 100% and get your points ignoring everyone else.

it is clear that Harden handling the ball too much (actually without being strategic about it) can hurt the team, and more importantly hurt Harden's efficiency as a scorer but you should be cognizant that it was a transition year for Harden too. he often looked greedy or boneheaded but rather than out of hubris it was probably him being a young player and not understanding much. the reason I think this is because you want to try to be objective and operate on empirical facts. this dude was a good teammate in Oklahoma. he was just probably trying to do too much, really he handled the transition better than Lin did (with a great deal more support and basic respect than Lin of course) relying on a coach who is primarily concerned with covering his ***** than helping develop young players.


Typical turd chin rant....eight paragraphs of nothing. The overlapping of their skillset(Harden being a great penetrator and passer) combined with Harden's greater talent means he's going to handle the rock more than Lin. That's all I said to Pryuen.


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