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<  Yao on the court, and his most recent game  ~  Smart People Choke Under Pressure

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 5:20 am
Posts: 10073Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:10 pm
yao had a ****** game.

van gundy benched him during Q4.

these are facts. they are what they are. it's stupid to take it any further than that. at the end of his career yao might be remembered as a multiple NBA champion like Dream or a guy who could never get it done, like Ewing or Barkley but that' TBD at a later date. he's 3 seasons in, in the middle of a playoff run, it's fun to speculate but there's no basis for any of the generalizing.

what happens when we take a snapshot of jordan is first couple of year? greedy, low basketball IQ, NON COMPETITIVE loser who's owned by the pistons. what happens when we look at Grant Hill his first couple of years? WORLD OF TALENT unstoppable.

how people react, certainly in athletics is largely LEARNED through experience. going through ******, people learn how to handle pressure, they also learn what their own threshold of it is, and learn how to deal with the distractions in-game and out. why the FCK do you guys think there's such a premium to "having been there before' and vets on your team? that's not something longtime watchers pulled out of their asses. it's important for a reason.

Yao's wound up pretty tight, but 5 games of the most efficient minutes in the league combined with 1 game of ****** doesn't equal a characterisitc of choking or underperforming, no matter how bad your math is

a lot of you, on BOTH sides are like abused housewives. let's be real. many like Yao starting with the fact that he's chinese but there's hundreds of famous chinese and asians out there. certainly many many in sports. part of Yao's appeal is his unpredictibility... his potential versus his struggles. I guarantee you if Yao was on a direct trajectory, either up or down, this site would have MUCH less traffic. you love it. it's human psychology. as fans you love watching his ups and downs. you love talking about it. you love the emotion when he delivers and you get pissed with emotion when he fails. this series has been the best drama in sports save the yankees tanking, and Yao's been the best story on this team.

as for me, I take yao's game for what it is. he plays hard and with all his heart. to me yao does seem very young, very clueless about america and frankly, like many jocks actually not too bright or too contemplative but he's honest and earnest. good enough. ill continue to watch yao, continue to root for him and i have full confidence that he'll continue to become a better player and move close to what his potential is


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 11:02 am
User avatarPosts: 3406Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:22 pm
temuchin wrote:
...... I take yao's game for what it is. he plays hard and with all his heart. ......
that has been Yao's norm, over the past 3 seasons in the nba; the effort was always there.

in game 6, he disappointed his teammates & fans. he quit on them; there was no effort. he demonstrated no heart.

Yao pulled a ZZW--- :evil: --- choking like a coward. he was relieved---not having to compete---when JVG sat him down for the Q4.

Yao's cowardice---not wanting to compete---warrants the harsh criticism-directed at him.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 12:34 pm
User avatarPosts: 3406Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:22 pm
pryuen wrote:
... :arrow: when has "not mentally tough enough yet" becomes equivalent to "cowardice" ??
when has "not wanting to compete" not cowardice :?: :idea: :roll:
pryuen wrote:
...Maguro/Daernoth/BBlock12000/Chinese-fob

Nice argument/debate from all of you guys.... I'm afraid we have to admit
Yao Ming is yet not mentally tough enough in such dead-or-alive, make-or-break situations. .....
in this most crucial game , he pulled a ZZW. during this past regular season, Yao has had a few off-nites---unproductive---where nothing was going for him. but, he kept at it. The EFFORT was always there. :!:

In this crcial game 6 against the Mav, Yao shown a side of him---cowardice---that i didn't think he had :(. this was what i painfully witnessed,
    he didn't want to be out there on the court
    he allegator-armed w the passes, fumble-itis,
      he half-assed attempted to show himself to his mates for the entry pass
      he half-assed attempted---allegator arms---for his shots on P&R w TMac, leading to easy blocks by Dirk :evil:
    he agonized on the FT line, even tho his success rate has been 80+%
    he was afraid---demoralizing his teammates---to send on pay-back msg to JHoward
in the do-or-die game 6, he was a little boy who didn't want to play---just want to go home to mommy


Last edited by bblock12000 on Sat May 07, 2005 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 12:43 pm
Posts: 771Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 4:33 pm
ggarret2 wrote:
maguro wrote:
I don't think someone can run offenses and distribute the ball the way Magic did without being smart. Maybe it's not conventional, academic, book smarts. But we all know there are different types of intelligence. And for sure Magic has the capacity to process rapidly changing situations on the fly, in real-time, and make good decisions.


Amen to that manguro. Well said. I wish this were said more often.


Magic is a smart businessman


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 771Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 4:33 pm
bblock12000 wrote:
pryuen wrote:
... :arrow: when has "not mentally tough enough yet" becomes equivalent to "cowardice" ??
when has "not wanting to compete" not cowardice :?: :idea: :roll:


Yao's nature is timid and he is self-conscious. He is deferential to a fault. I don't think he exhibited cowardice, but he is conflicted. CWebb and KG exhibited more cowardice in their basketball careers than Yao has.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 1:00 pm
User avatarPosts: 3406Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:22 pm
chinese_fob wrote:
...Yao's nature is timid and he is self-conscious. He is deferential to a fault. ..... CWebb and KG exhibited more cowardice in their basketball careers than Yao has.
true :!:


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 4:14 pm
Posts: 647Location: downtown chicagoJoined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:48 pm
daernoth wrote:
Forgot... as for calling me pedantic keep the insults to yourself. I really dont care. You had a theory: nice guys finish last. The Spurs didnt fit into your theory so you proceded to mangle and twist words around so they did. You would have been better served just saying that they are the exception or something to that effect. If you are intellectually honest you will be able to see that.

With that matter we must agree to disagree. Like you said it was an exercise in futility.


Look dude, you're obviously a smart and generally reasonable guy. But you initiated the antagonistic tone and the personal assaults. My comments were no more insulting than you accusing me of misusing words, or condescendingly tossing around LOLs.

I wasn't even trying to argue with you on a personal level -- you escalated it to that level by assaulting my ability to correctly assign meanings to words. I was just taking issue with your interpretation of my comments -- which was a function not of my use of language, but you're blind adulation of Yao (something which we'll revisit shortly).

If anything, you were simply misunderstanding something that I though was quite clear. All I was doing was trying to get you to understand what I was trying to say -- that Yao does in fact need to be meaner, nastier, and tougher.

That you reduced my comments to "nice guys finish last" shows that you completely misunderstood me. Nowhere did I ever assert that. Clearly, nice guys don't necessarily finish last -- they can and have succeed in this league. But guys who are too nice -- which with Yao also goes hand in hand with being too soft, tentative, weak-willed, and deferential -- cannot succeed in a league filled with nastiness, rough play, and quite a few thugs. They become a liability on the battlefield of the playoffs. And they can even be a danger to themselves.

I would love for Yao to retain his gentle giant persona. Even if he injects quite a bit of nastiness into his game, he is so far biased to the gentle side of the nice/mean spectrum, that the end result would still be a nice guy. I think there we basically agree.

You like to give sh*t to bblock for his antagonism, but how are you any better? You've been a borderline troll yourself in this discussion. Yes, sometimes bblock gets carried away (sorry bblock). But I totally can sympathize with his frustration about the blind adulation, deification, and perpetual excuse-making/blame-shifting surrounding Yao.

I still consider myself a big Yao fan. As for his development, I'm still hoping for the best -- while preparing for the worst. But being a fan doesn't mean blowing him and stroking him constantly. Especially when he produces a gutless performance, and everyone is depending on him to give an inspired showing for the biggest game of his career. Especially when thugs disrespect him and his teammates are battling with all their heart.

Game 7 is an even bigger game. So we expect even more. Here is another opportunity for him to redeem himself. But at this point, if he fails to produce, I probably won't be so harsh. I've already vented. I'll only be disappointed. And resigned to the fact that Yao is a nice, talented guy who can occasionally deliver good games -- but not deliver the goods consistently or when it really counts.

Anyway, I don't think we need to agree to disagree -- when it gets down to it, I don't really think we disagree all that much. The only thing we don't agree on is the interpretation of my comments. Hopefully, it's just a misunderstanding -- and nothing personal. Peace.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 4:30 pm
Posts: 474Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:10 am
I think im safe in saying that near everybody here thinks bblock is a troll and as long as he is around telling us how much Yao sucks ill be there to tell him to go screw himself. If that makes me a troll(which of course im not) then ill be here to hunt my own kind. Maybe once upon a time he was really a fan but if he still is he makes a GREAT impression of being a hater.

When i start using smiley faces or LOL faces thats usually the sign that im trying to lighten the mood and let the argument go. Only person ive used that on as a way of mockery is bblock.

As for everything else everything that was gonna be said was said. Yesterdays news. Peace.

edit: Actually that pic bblock uses of Yao Ming is a really ironic choice. Seems more like the pic a wide eyed, hopeful for the future, hero worshiping fan would use. Kinda tragic that someone could start like that and end up hating his hero. Bah now im the one with the psycho-babble. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 647Location: downtown chicagoJoined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:48 pm
pryuen wrote:
I surely can't accept this claim of yours that Yao Ming was not willing to go battle along with his team mates.


OK, Pry, maybe I was too harsh. Then again, maybe I wasn't. I don't know. These days with Yao, I really just don't know anymore.

So maybe he was willing to go to battle. But he sure wasn't able. Whatever reason you want to assign -- cowardice, lack of mental toughness, lack of talent, lack of skills, lack of aggressiveness, lack of comfort-level, lack of respect, lack of confidence, lack of experience, lack of touches -- he didn't battle in any meaningful way, and he was a non-factor. Take your pick of explanations -- the end result was the same.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 5:40 pm
User avatarPosts: 59329Location: Hong Kong/ChinaJoined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 5:13 am
maguro wrote:
Whatever reason you want to assign -- cowardice, lack of mental toughness, lack of talent, lack of skills, lack of aggressiveness, lack of comfort-level , lack of respect, lack of confidence, lack of experience, lack of touches -- he didn't battle in any meaningful way, and he was a non-factor. Take your pick of explanations -- the end result was the same.


I would take those highlighted above, cos all of these can be eliminated in due course as his experiences of make-or-break and do-or-die games in playoff series accumulate. :oops:

And in an hour or so, Game 7 will be another chance/stage for him to prove/redeem himself.
Surely hope he is not going to disappoint us. :oops:


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