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<  Yao on the court, and his most recent game  ~  Smart People Choke Under Pressure

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 1:25 am
Posts: 647Location: downtown chicagoJoined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:48 pm
daernoth wrote:
You are assuming that he can fullfill the expectations you have put out there for him. What if he cant? What if he is just who he is and nothing more nothing less? At what point does the criticism stop and you just accept him for who he is? At what point to you move on to cheer a differnt player if he isnt good enough for you?

Hell... what if he CAN fullfill those expectations but just isnt ready quite yet? We are not Yao. We cannot live his life and he most certainly was not born to please us. He is gonna lead his life as he chooses, do the best he can and if we cant deal with that OH WELL. If there is something that im sure about him is that he wants to be the best he can be and is willing to work hard for it. I say cheer for him and enjoy his career while it lasts and leave the sour grapes behind.


Of course I'm assuming that. If I don't, I wouldn't nearly have as much interest in him. Cultural/ethnic identification is important, but then why aren't we hanging out at wangzhizhimania.com? Because Yao is more handsome?

And of course, it's crossed my mind that our expectations are too high -- I've said in many posts that we probably need to lower those expectations. At the same time, there are guys who have less talent and way more heart than Yao -- so of course some of us will be frustrated.

But just because some of us are vocal about our frustration doesn't mean we build our lives around this guy. So what is this bullsh*t about living his life as he chooses and us not being able to deal with that? We're sports fans -- there's a long tradition of fans criticizing teams and players they're rooting for. It's just talk -- nothing more and nothing less. So why don't you be a little thicker skinned and just "deal" with it?

And for someone who likes to engage in pedantic micro-parsing of words, you've misused the phrase "sour grapes." No, I'm not conceding I can't have something and thus am disparaging it -- like Aesop's fox. I'm getting annoyed because some guy who's 7'6" can't grab some f*cking grapes that are clearly within his reach.

Besides, Yao was brought to the NBA and is paid a lot of money to do a job. Which makes him open to scrutiny. Of course we can't do a better job than him, but that doesn't mean we can't complain. We criticize JVG. We criticize refs. We criticize Stern. We criticize Cuban. We criticize any writer, media observer, or commentator who says unkind words about Yao. Beyond the NBA, we criticize presidents, our bosses, cooks, artists and musicians. But certainly few of us can do any of those jobs better.

The scrutiny just comes with the territory. And I know there's a lot of you guys who didn't think JVG (and Yao's former teammates Francis and Mobley) have the right to live their lives and run their teams the way they choose -- allegedly at Yao's expense.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 1:38 am
Posts: 17923Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 1:31 pm
Yao should not be running those pick and rolls and setting up screens. This is a waste of his energy.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:08 am
Posts: 474Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:10 am
maguro wrote:

Of course I'm assuming that. If I don't, I wouldn't nearly have as much interest in him. Cultural/ethnic identification is important, but then why aren't we hanging out at wangzhizhimania.com? Because Yao is more handsome?

And of course, it's crossed my mind that our expectations are too high -- I've said in many posts that we probably need to lower those expectations. At the same time, there are guys who have less talent and way more heart than Yao -- so of course some of us will be frustrated.

But just because some of us are vocal about our frustration doesn't mean we build our lives around this guy. So what is this bullsh*t about living his life as he chooses and us not being able to deal with that? We're sports fans -- there's a long tradition of fans criticizing teams and players they're rooting for. It's just talk -- nothing more and nothing less. So why don't you be a little thicker skinned and just "deal" with it?

And for someone who likes to engage in pedantic micro-parsing of words, you've misused the phrase "sour grapes." No, I'm not conceding I can't have something and thus am disparaging it -- like Aesop's fox. I'm getting annoyed because some guy who's 7'6" can't grab some f*cking grapes that are clearly within his reach.

Besides, Yao was brought to the NBA and is paid a lot of money to do a job. Which makes him open to scrutiny. Of course we can't do a better job than him, but that doesn't mean we can't complain. We criticize JVG. We criticize refs. We criticize Stern. We criticize Cuban. We criticize any writer, media observer, or commentator who says unkind words about Yao. Beyond the NBA, we criticize presidents, our bosses, cooks, artists and musicians. But certainly few of us can do any of those jobs better.

The scrutiny just comes with the territory. And I know there's a lot of you guys who didn't think JVG (and Yao's former teammates Francis and Mobley) have the right to live their lives and run their teams the way they choose -- allegedly at Yao's expense.


by paragraph:

1)I happen not to be chinese or asian for that matter. I cheer for people who deserve it not because they share similar genes. I dont care if you are asian. If you dont like him there is no point to being here. And before you go bonkers with that im referring to bblock NOT YOU. Bblock is a true hater.

2)That is perfectly natural.

3)Actually ive never heard people pile up on the guy they are supposedly fans of with such fervor. I wouldnt consider that to be part of bball tradition AT ALL. And when i talk about people not being able to deal with that AGAIN im more referring to people like bblock. You always think im specifically referring to you when i talk in general and take it personally. Ill admit i may not be clear enough.

4)Seems like a lot of frustration to me. People want Yao to be mentally tough and this and that but WOW... how easily they let frustration and anger set in. I think Yao is more mentally tough than all the haters in this board combined. As for sour grapes, I probably did use the term wrong but i dont mind admitting it. Being wrong nothing to be proud of.

5)We are in the Yao Ming fan site. If you were in the Amare site and kept harping about how Yao is mentally weak or whathaveyou THEN it would make some sense. If you ***** about Yao HERE you better be ready to take some flak! If the haters here(again not necessarily including you) cant take it TOO BAD!

As for Yao getting paid a lot of money and that meaning closer scrutiny that is true. HOWEVER criticism on the media or by his opponents is NOT the same as criticism on his fan site. A lot of us come here to cheer for him together and support him in spirit. We dont appreciate all the stupid "Yao sux he is a coward" comments.

6)All of them should listen to their coach and not us but again this isnt their freaking fan site. Simple.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:19 am
Posts: 474Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:10 am
Forgot... as for calling me pedantic keep the insults to yourself. I really dont care. You had a theory: nice guys finish last. The Spurs didnt fit into your theory so you proceded to mangle and twist words around so they did. You would have been better served just saying that they are the exception or something to that effect. If you are intellectually honest you will be able to see that.

With that matter we must agree to disagree. Like you said it was an exercise in futility.


Last edited by daernoth on Sat May 07, 2005 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:19 am
User avatarPosts: 59329Location: Hong Kong/ChinaJoined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 5:13 am
maguro wrote:
Yao hasn't. We all know the playoffs are a battle. If he's not fighting because he doesn't have the strength and/or skills, that's fine. But we all believe he does have the strength and skills. So let me ask you this: what do you call someone who does have those assets, but won't go battle along with his teammates?


I surely can't accept this claim of yours that Yao Ming was not willing to go battle along with his team mates.

:arrow: Yeah, he played the worst games in the series so far;
:arrow: Yeah, his FG% was 3/8, having mutliple shots (3 or 4) blocked;
:arrow: Yeah, his FT% was only 2/6, which was uncharacteric for him;
:arrow: Yeah, he fumbled a few times on the bullet passes from his team mates;
:arrow: Yeah he could not grab a few rebounds that he should be able to grab;
:arrow: Yeah, he only stared and had to be held back by T-Mac that he did not retaliate Josh Howard for his hard fouls.


But SO WHAT ??? These did not constitute acts of cowardice.

All we can say:


:arrow: He was the target of the referees; and he had 2 fouls already with him in 1Q; more aggressive plays from him, or retaliation onto the Mavericks could get him into foul troubles and got him fouled out.

:arrow: He was too tight up and nervous and too eager to win, which affected his performance. You can say he is not mentally tough yet, but no way these can be generalized as signs of cowardice, or signs of unwillingness to battle.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:22 am
User avatarPosts: 4900Location: PhilippinesJoined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:06 pm
C'mon guys. Smart people choke under pressure? Then I guess the clutch players are all dumb...

Please let's stop making ridiculous excuses and admit that Yao sucked in Game 6. He choked in the 3rd quarter with those crucial TOs, missed FTs and layups.

Let's not try to make a positive spin on Yao's poor performance by saying:

1.) Smart people choke under pressure
2.) Yao had the flu (NOT TRUE)
3.) Yao's nervousness inspired his teammates
4.) Yao's anger inspired his teammates
5.) or any other excuse to falsley glorify Yao's poor performance in Game 6

Please guys, this is the kind of blind Yao-loving that the trolls and Yao bashers use to justify their arguments.

As a loyal Yao fan, I was shocked at how Yao choked during Game 6. I was hoping Howard's hard foul will make Yao go on a rampage, but he didn't. However, I am also confident that Yao will bounce back in Game 7 and carry the Rocket to the 2nd round.

A note to bblock, you're really turning into a troll, you know that?


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:29 am
User avatarPosts: 4900Location: PhilippinesJoined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:06 pm
bblock12000 wrote:
pryuen wrote:
:arrow: when has "not mentally tough enough yet" becomes equivalent to "cowardice" ??
since 10 TOs (+ dropped passes & fumbled reb, not counted as TOs) in a game = butter-fingeritis

Chuck__187 wrote:
cowardice and mental weakness go in hand-in-hand


Since when did butterfingeritis = cowardice?

Now you quote other posters to support your claims? I guess Chuck_187 is a psychologist? An expert in the field of human emotions? I am not so sure cowardice and mental weakness go hand in hand.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:31 am
User avatarPosts: 4900Location: PhilippinesJoined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:06 pm
daernoth wrote:
"To be honest, if Yao chokes, it's really none of our business. We can be bitterly disappointed but it's his life and not ours. Could we honestly say that IF WE WERE in Yao's shoes, that we would do better? We can't say that with 100% certainty."

AMEN!


I am 100% sure that bblock is 100% sure that he can do better than Yao, since he is such and expert in bball, plus he knows all about butterfingeritis = mental weakness = cowardice.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:39 am
Posts: 51Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:28 pm
maguro wrote:
I don't think someone can run offenses and distribute the ball the way Magic did without being smart. Maybe it's not conventional, academic, book smarts. But we all know there are different types of intelligence. And for sure Magic has the capacity to process rapidly changing situations on the fly, in real-time, and make good decisions.


Amen to that manguro. Well said. I wish this were said more often.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:53 am
Posts: 51Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:28 pm
daernoth wrote:
"Could we honestly say that IF WE WERE in Yao's shoes, that we would do better? We can't say that with 100% certainty.


I have a really cool head in a crisis - really. Situations where other people would freak out, I'm just as cool as a cucumber. Its just the way I'm wired. I don't thik people who freak out are cowards. That's just the way ther are wired.

Under sustained stress I don't function well at all. The pressure of the playoffs - bad calls - bad press - the ref. controversy. I know I would have to sit down in the middle of the court and have a good long cry. Yao is not as mentally tough as some of the players in the NBA, but under sustained stress he's a better man than me. I don't thik I'm a coward and I don't think Yao's a coward.


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